Would this neutralize any differences in color between different non-matched lenses? Not talking about resolution/bokeh/etc. just color.
Would my shots match between olympus zooms and zeiss primes if I color matched them all with the same chart first?
Please forgive the stupid question.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 06/18 at 03:35 AM
Short answer is yes.
Posted by Charles Angus on 06/18 at 08:14 AM
You should be able to match two lenses with this chart as long as you’re only looking at overall color shifts.
The one thing you can’t do with this chart is match cameras that may have different matrix settings. You can’t see how the matrix affects color by looking at white, gray or black. You’d need the full Chroma Du Monde in a controlled environment for that.
But for neutralizing overall color casts and dialing in flesh tone between multiple lenses or multiple cameras with the exact same matrix settings, this chart should be perfect and easy to use.
Posted by Art Adams on 06/18 at 08:27 AM
So using multiple AF100’s (same scene files) with say, Olympus zooms mixed with Zeiss zf.2 primes would work for color-matched shots if matched later in post with a chart like this, correct?
Makes buying color-matched lens sets less important I suppose.
Thanks for the valuable information, hope it applies to somebody who reads PVC besides me
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 06/18 at 09:42 AM
Another question I’ve wondered about. In the post you say after using the eyedroppers in FCP the image looked “..exactly what the environment looks like to my eye.”
However my understanding has been that using a greycard in post neutralizes the effect of the lighting and creates perfect whites (not warm white or cool whites.) So if you have warm lighting (sunset) balancing off a grey card in post will neutralize it and remove the color warmth.
Am I correct in my thinking? Is there a way to color correct a sunset-lit shot to a greycard or some kind of color chart so that it will look just as it did to the eye in the field?
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 06/18 at 09:48 AM
Hmmmm…. probably not.
The background colors in the still above are very warm, so although the gray card looks pretty neutral there’s nothing else in the shot that’s a neutral gray or white.
Any grading you do to a gray card shot at sunset will remove the sunset effect, because the role of a reference like this is to allow you to neutralize overall color shifts. This is good for environments where there are overall color shifts such as fluorescent-lit offices (green) or open shade (blue), etc. It’s also important for color correcting with a consistent look, as this card allows you to “zero out” the look before applying a grade. If you apply a grade to non-neutralized footage you’ll get a lot of different looks where you only want one, so The Hawk allows you to find a baseline from which to work.
As for sunset… the problem is that none of the light in a beautiful sunset is a neutral color, so you don’t buy anything by shooting a reference chart. It can give you highlight and shadow color references so you can give other footage a sunset feel, but it won’t make the sunset match what you see by eye. You’re probably best off picking a preset white balance, like 5600K, and sticking with it as the sun goes down. If you can a color accurate monitor you can skew the color temp as the sun goes down and enhance the image by making it warmer or cooler. (Sometimes adding blue to a sunset can make the most amazing purples.)
In the case of the episodic DP that I mentioned in the article, she wanted to be able to pull a frame out of shot ungraded footage, neutralize it, and then apply a look as a reference for her colorist. The colorist can then neutralize the footage in the same way and then build her look from a neutral palette.
I used the eyedroppers as an example, although I’m not really promoting their use as a serious color correction tool. For quickly neutralizing a still in Lightroom it works very well, but for tweaking HD footage you’ll most likely want to use more sophisticated tools. The eyedroppers get along quite well with this chart, though, so you can do a rough grade very quickly for a rough cut and then go back and finesse it later.
Posted by Art Adams on 06/18 at 10:48 AM
Hey Art,
Firstly thank you for continuously sharing your wealth of knowledge with everyone.
Hopefully this isn’t a stupid question but it’s bothered me for a while.
So i’m used to seeing nice primary reds and blues etc. in a set of camera generated colour bars that align perfectly with the respective dots on a vectorcope.
So how come the colours on say the Chrome Du Monde chart are what appear to be muted pastels but they still hit the marks?
Thanks Stephen Taylor
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 06/18 at 08:34 PM
Hi Stephen-
My understanding is this:
Color bars are an electronically generated test pattern, and as a result they are almost impossible to reproduce in reality. It’s impossible to print colors that are that saturated, at least on a front-lit chart. (This may not be true for back lit color charts, but I haven’t played with those yet.)
The goal with the Chroma Du Monde is to use the waveform monitor to set levels and then verify that their dots on the vectorscope fall on the right vectors. (A vector is a line, in this case drawn between the middle of the scope and each color’s box.) If the dots fall on their vectors then they are at least accurate in hue, if not in saturation—and saturation can usually be fixed later.
I’m doing this by memory so I may not have the numbers exactly right, but the theory is correct: the reason the colors are muted on the Chroma Du Monde is that they are not pure colors, but mixed colors. For example, the “red” patch is 80 units of red (as seen on a parade waveform) with 40 units of blue and 40 units of green. The same breakdowns hold true of the “blue” and “green” patches. In this way the signal never drops to black in a color channel when a color is not present; if it did then you’d have no way to know whether it was present in the shadows as it would be crushed.
On modern cameras these signals don’t always appear at 80 units and 40 units due to the various gamma curves in play, but if the camera is set to a true (crippled) Rec 709 gamma curve this is where the colors should fall. Otherwise they should appear a bit flatter as the Rec 709 standard is only designed to hold six stops or so and modern cameras can usually see ten stops or more, so you have to cram them into the six stop space using some creative math.
Also, while the Rec 709 standard exists, not all the manufacturers hit it exactly or use the same formulation of dyes on the sensor to get there. As a result some colors don’t hit their boxes at all. That’s typically not too important as the distance from the center of the vectorscope indicates saturation, and the rotation describes accuracy. Accuracy tends to be more important than proper saturation levels as you can almost always tweak saturation, and Chroma Du Monde charts are designed to be used with a vectorscope magnification of 2x anyway as the colors will never be saturated enough to hit the boxes at 1x. And even at 2x some of the colors won’t hit their boxes: green is a notoriously hard color for cameras to hit and is usually the one color that isn’t saturated enough to hit its box.
There are also colors that don’t fit into the video color space. You can get a rich bright blue in video that you can’t get in film; you can have bright blue or saturated blue on film but not both. Similarly, you can get oranges on video that film can’t see.
I hope that helps…
Posted by Art Adams on 06/18 at 08:50 PM
The roughly half-saturated colors on the chart are much easier to render using reflected-light pigments; fully-saturated colors are very difficult to create in print with good accuracy. The ChromaDuMonde colors are set up to hit the target boxes (assuming Rec.709 colorimetry) on the 75% saturation vectorscope if you boost the vectorscope gain to 1.875. This corresponds to boosting gain on the ‘scope until the colorburst (assuming, of course, that your signal has burst!) extends out just below the outer limit of the 10% target box for green.
If you don’t tweak the ‘scope, the ‘scope pattern for the CDM colors will be about half as big as the corresponding pattern for electronically-generated 75% colorbars.
Posted by Adam Wilt on 06/18 at 11:49 PM
...And I find it amusing that we’re talking about color patches that don’t exist on The Hawk! [grin]
Posted by Adam Wilt on 06/18 at 11:51 PM
DSC rounded 1.875x to 2x years ago for some reason I don’t remember.
Posted by Art Adams on 06/19 at 07:10 AM
2x is a much easier computation, and required only a minor tweak to the colors… My documentation is from my CDM which is, I fear, a wee bit out of date (blush).
Posted by Adam Wilt on 06/19 at 08:14 AM
Thanks for the explanation guys. much appreciated.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 06/20 at 09:53 AM
Great concept.
I did something very similar to this matching a mid-level point-n-shoot 720p30 video to a higher end 3-chip HD camcorder by using a black/white/grey pop-out reflector. It didn’t get me _all_ the way there, a flesh-tone bar across the middle would have helped greatly, but it did get the cameras to look so much closer together in 1 minute than I thought was possible at all.
I find blurring the image a bit before color picking makes a great difference because he color picker is _very_ specific in what it selects.
I wrote this up for EventDV but the article doesn’t appear to be online.
Posted by IEBA on 06/21 at 12:42 PM
Oh, here’s the article. It’s embedded in one of those new “digital Magazine” thingies.
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/infotoday/eventdvlive_2010autumn/#/23/OnePage
Posted by IEBA on 06/21 at 01:54 PM