ProVideo Coalition.com: HDSLR Shooter

Being hailed as the new sheriff in town with aspirations to kick HDSLRs out of the video market, the Sony NEX-VG10 with its interchangeable lenses and larger chip may just herald the end of professional applications of DSLR video. However, a closer examination seems to indicate it may still lack some of the key features so endearing to those of us who shoot with HDSLRs. So before you go running to ebay or your local pawnshop with your HDSLR you might want to consider the NEX-VG10’s limitations.

No Variable Frame Rates

Variable frame rates was one of the reasons I bought a 7D. With the NEX-VG10, you’re stuck at 30fps. If you’re not clear as to why this is so important, consider that 24fps is the key element to making video look like a real movie. Shallow depth of field, grain content and color grading that mimics film processing are important to mimicking the film aesthetic as well, but without 24p, your video will inevitably look like video and not film. This is what gave the 7D an edge over its predecessor, the 5D Mark II: the variable frame rate. This is also why Canon users pushed for the firmware update of the 5D Mark II, giving it the 24fps option.

Interlaced vs Progressive

The Sony APS sensor captures in progressive, but the camera is saving the footage into an interlaced container with a doubled frame rate. What does this mean? It’s difficult to say without having worked with it myself, but I fear that the footage will have to be de-interlaced. The limitations of the interlaced files will unfortunately have to be revealed by those who have pre-ordered or who will rush right out and get one the day it’s released.

Interchangeable Sony or Minolta Lenses

The NEX-VG10 offers the same APS HD CMOS sensor and E-mount lenses as the Alpha NEX-5 and Alpha NEX-3 compact cameras announced earlier this year. That lens/sensor combination has been said to work extremely well together, but how does that sensor work with say, Canon or Nikon lenses? Rumor says that Sony has no plans to include an EF adapter or an adapter of any kind, so if you have a stockpile of these lenses and you want this camera, you might reconsider. However, a third party has come to the rescue. Rayqual will shortly be releasing an additional range of adapters for the Sony cameras. Priced between $220 to $275. These adapters will give you the opportunity to mount Nikon, Canon FD, Pentax and Leica lenses, however, it’s not clear if these adapters work with Canon EF or L series lenses.

On-board Microphone

Here’s the big head turner for most people: the Sony has a mic system more akin to a standard camcorder as opposed to the HDSLR’s on-board mic, which seems to have been an afterthought. Here’s the thing to consider about this mic. There are no XLR inputs on this camera, and although it has an impressive mic array, unless you want to capture every sound in the room, you’ll need either a Sony mic using their proprietary shoe or you will have to provide your own. If you insist upon using XLR mics, you’ll have to use a Juicelink or similar device.

Conclusion

The NEX-VG10 makes a giant leap forward to bringing features to the consumer that were only available to professionals, but the camera still lacks some of the most meaty parts of the HDSLR. However, as Panasonic prepares to release its interchangeable lens camcorder in the Fall of 2010, we should consider this device a sign of things to come.

NAB 2012: Trucolor Ohm Space Light

Bruce A Johnson | 04/20

400 watts of LED replaces a 6K? Sounds good to me.

Next time you need to flood a room with soft light - in whatever color temperature - you should give the Ohm a look.

NAB 2012: EZ-Jib

Bruce A Johnson | 04/20

EZ to use, EZ on your wallet

I’ve always been intrigued by jib arms, and usually put off by their high prices. EZ-FX might have a solution to that problem.

NAB 2012: Swedish Chameleon DSLR Shoulder Mount

Bruce A Johnson | 04/17

No, it isn’t a lizard.

There are a lot of DSLR mounts out there, but this one lets you say: “Look Mom, no hands.”

You must be registered to comment. This is an effort to reduce spam. Please REGISTER HERE.

Regarding the lack of 24p: Sorry, but there’s a mounting professional preference for smooth video and a rejection of the hocus-pocus presumption that jittery motion magically evokes cinematic formality. 99.9% of shooters who use 24p will never make it to celluloid, so the footage eventually makes its way to a 30p display technology whether streaming online or being displayed/projected via HDTV, involving signal degradation via 3:2 pulldown.

Regarding the interlacing fallacy: It’s proven over and over again because of other existing products, this will shoot in 30p plain-and-simple. The 60i container is for straight-to-Bluray compatibility but the actual stream is true progressive 30fps via 2:2 pulldown, which will not suffer the inevitable 3:2 pulldown degradation that every single 24fps shooter will get stuck with.

Regarding the lens adapters, there are already numerous lens adapters for the E-mount NEX still cameras that should work with the NEX-VG10, including Canon, Nikon, PL, Leica and more.

For a comprehensive set of sample videos, web links/references and discussion, visit:

http://www.nexvg10.info

Posted by Zen Violence Films on 07/29 at 11:04 PM

Well, sorry, but there’s a current (and for the last eighty years or so) preference for 24 frames. Period. I like it. Lots of others like it. If the camera can do 30, then it can do 24. Not including that feature is just product differentiation, plain and simple.

All in all, one helluva snooze of a camera.

Posted by Charles Angus on 07/30 at 12:48 AM

The thing to remember about this camera is that it ISN’T the camera that Sony announced at NAB. That one is a whole different beast with XLR inputs etc, and is the one guys like us should be waiting for.

Posted by Simon Wyndham on 07/30 at 01:14 AM

Simon, You are right, the VG10 is a great camcorder, but it is not built specifically for pros. The one that I think you are referring to is the HXR-MC50U and it is available now.

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/product-HXRMC50U/

Posted by RobManfredo on 07/30 at 07:48 AM

Two comments on Zen’s post:

- I too prefer 30p personally, but (unfortunately) inertia is is 24p’s favor

- 3:2 pulldown does not degrade the image; you can re-assemble the original frames

Posted by Chris Meyer on 07/30 at 09:23 AM

Any distinction between the clique/labor union of “professionals” and everyone else is practically outdated by now. As a key example in direct response to your posts, audiophile quality can be transmitted via 1/8” stereo miniplugs just as well as XLR, albeit over nominally shorter distances (and field audio recording anyway never pushes the limits like post-production audio). Moreover, so-called “professionals” are never shooting with the precision and backup of major productions anyway - weddings and corporate training videos just aren’t the stuff of art. And that’s the point: launches like this are an hopeful liberation for creative talent to bust apart monopolies on production that “Pro Video Coalitions” fight so fiercely to defend.

Somewhere in the world, there is a teenager shooting considerably lusher, more creative, and even technically superior footage than any of us. Something to celebrate.

Posted by Zen Violence Films on 07/30 at 09:36 AM

Rob, no, the camcorder I’m talking about is this one
http://twitpic.com/1eycf3

Posted by Simon Wyndham on 07/30 at 09:37 AM

“Somewhere in the world, there is a teenager shooting considerably lusher, more creative, and even technically superior footage than any of us. Something to celebrate.”

That as may be, but I doubt it. The reason why they are seen as being more creative is because they are making the videos on their own time and not for a paying client who will insist on everything right down to their choice of font for the titles.

There’s a big difference between amateurs having fun and making a video that is designed to make money and is handled professionally throughout (from the initial talks with the client right through to production and post). That’s the fundamental thing that most amateurs fail to grasp.

Posted by Simon Wyndham on 07/30 at 09:43 AM

Remember, this is Sony. Consumer & Prosumer are just a few case mods away. They’ve done it time and again for many years (VX-1000 / PD150 anyone?) So look at this as the core of a prosumer camcorder coming down the line. More frame rates, XLR, hopefully waveform… etc.

I’ve elaborated on this at length here
http://ieba.wordpress.com/2010/07/14/sonynexvg10/
So I won’t take up space on PVC.

Posted by IEBA on 07/30 at 10:02 AM

No, Sony Consumer Division and the Professiona/Broadcast divisions are effectively different companies, and they are actually quite competitive between them. When the consumer division made the Z1 the professional division was none too pleased.

But you are right, there will be a pro camcorder down the line, and it has already been announced, here http://twitpic.com/1eycf3 and here http://www.hdwarrior.co.uk/2010/04/12/sony-shows-a-sdof-camcorder-at-nab/

Not sure why everyone seems to be selectively forgetting this fact?

Posted by Simon Wyndham on 07/30 at 10:10 AM

I’m not saying they aren’t separate divisions.
But there have been an aweful lot of camcorders that were in the “pro” division that were either merely consumer models with different plastics (grey as opposed to silver, as with the TRV-900) or with simple modifications for XLR jacks. (like the HVR-A1U is a consumer HC1, etc, etc.)

Yes, a pro model was announced, and thanks for the photo link. But knowing Sony, and the constraints of manufacturing a specialized camera, and their fiscan situation, I feel that a lot of the NEX-5 and NEX-VG10 will provide the core engineering and components for their pro(sumer) model.

Posted by IEBA on 07/30 at 10:35 AM

An opposite to 24p would be 60p. 30p is just… um… meh. This is not a camera for the “moveeeez”, this is a camera for lush web videos, like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciAqopNRL0U This camera will do just fine for the Web until YouTube switches to 60p (this is what they should be thinking about, not about superfluous 1080p or even 4K).

30p is recorded as 30PsF just like DV cameras of yore did in Frame Mode, so no problems with editing. Deinterlace with “weave”, that is, just treat every two fields as a frame. Most NLEs do it by default.

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 07/31 at 03:46 PM

There is a huge difference between 24/30 fps and 60 fps. It’s been shown in the past that right around 48 fps, there’s a transition where the brain perceives things as either “real” (faster rates) or “dream-like” (lower rates). That’s why 60 (or 30i) works so well for news and sports, and 24p - or 30p - works so well for storytelling.

“...monopolies on production that “Pro Video Coalitions” fight so fiercely to defend” - huh? There’s been articles up here for everything from REDs and Arris to iPhones and GoVideos (and all manner of camcorder and video-enabled DSLR inbetween). Know your tools; know their capabilities; know their limitations. T
However boring it may be to say so, this ain’t about revolution; it’s about getting real work done in the real world - and there are many paths to do so.

Posted by Chris Meyer on 07/31 at 10:40 PM

Test comment - please ignore.

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 08/02 at 08:34 PM

I guess the biggest advantage is that camcorders are less susceptible to rapid changes of light, such as DSLR video. The built-in microphone is for me not the determining argument, as I always record the sound externally, like (probably) many others.
Furthermore, the selection of lenses is currently very limited.

Posted by Kameraverleih Berlin on 08/03 at 04:36 AM

Just seeing the Bali footage of this camera confirmed my suspicions. The footage looks like good news footage without a trace of cinema-like quality. You can tell it is video. Regardless of what Zen believes, you can really tell a difference between 24p footage and 30p. Also this camera also has the Sony “technicolor” gamma curve, which I also find displeasing. I lived and breathed Sony camcorders until the Z-1 came out, and then switched to Panasonic. The gamma curves and realistic film look are palpable. The HVX-200 was as big a game changer as the VX-1 was. That is also why I got a 7D versus a 5D. There really is a qualitative difference shooting in 24p. That is why all the 5D afficionados pressed so hard for the 24p firmware upgrade.

Posted by kokopele on 09/03 at 11:13 AM

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The Sony NEX-VG10—The End of DSLR Video?

No Variable Frame Rates

Interlaced vs Progressive

Interchangeable Sony or Minolta Lenses

On-board Microphone

Conclusion